ToyCyte sale!
We've slashed our prices for a lot of our toys to make room for more customs! Go get some amazing deals today at our store !
<-->
The designer toy scene was born in the mid-late 1990s in Hong Kong (Michael Lau), Japan (Bounty Hunter), the UK (James Jarvis) and the USA (Kaws). A culture and industry sprang up around these new figures that were at once, both art and toys. Mini-figures quickly became an affordable way to make art toys available to the growing fanbase. Medicom’s Kubricks paired popular culture with platform figures, and Toy2R’s Qees put the artists back into the mix. In the early 2000s, Kidrobot released Dunnys, which remain one of the most popular mini-figures to date.
Now over a decade since the beginning, Kubricks, Qees and Dunnys seem like distant cousins from the toys that sparked the scene. They have become a category all their own: they are blind box toys. Blind box toys are, for the uninitiated, toys that are sold with their contents enshrouded in secrecy. The risk-factor of buying the unknown is mitigated by the potential reward of getting something rare. Americans may remember the youthful experience of putting coins into gumball machines. You don’t know what you’re going to get, and that is, ostensibly, all packaged into the fun of the experience.
Depending who you ask, blind boxing is a “marketing strategy” or a “fun experience.” Depending who you are, it is either one or possibly both.
Blind boxes allow toy companies to take chances and produce more figures; toy stores don’t have to worry about getting stuck with unpopular figures. Like gumball machine toys, blind box toys keep fans coming back for more. Rarely does a person buy a single blind box, get exactly what he/she wants and call it a day. Rather, people buy blind box toys by the handful or case, going back for more in the quest to collect the entire series. This is, of course, great for toy companies and toy stores.
And it’s good for some toy fans too. Popular reasons for peoples’ enjoyment of blind box toys include: the element of surprise, the thrill of the chase and the social connections from trading duplicate or undesirable figures. Blind box toys also function as a gateway: they introduce people to artists and a new medium for collecting art.
However, unlike gumball machine toys, blind box designer toys typically cost around $8, with some as much as $30. For completists (collectors who want a whole set), the thrill and social factors take a backseat to completing a series. Eventually some casual fans graduate to being serious fans. At this point, a schism opens up between the newly minted collector and the toy company.
This article isn’t about me, but here are a few things you should know nonetheless. When I was a kid, I collected Smurfs. If I had used my allowance to buy Handy Smurf and instead I got Baby Smurf, I would have been pissed. I also collected Matchbox cars (blister-carded) and rocks (scattered on the ground). As an adult, I collect art toys, and I’m not a big fan of surprises. Toys are like little legal pick-me-ups: they briefly take the edge off life’s stressors and reward you with a nice piece of art. I don’t look to them for thrills or socializing. If I wanted a social thrill, I’d go jump out of an airplane with a group of my closest pals. So on that note, let’s jump right in.
Over the past several weeks, I’ve had lots of conversations: in person, on the phone, over email and on bulletin boards. To have a conversation about the reasons for and reactions to blind boxes, we must look at them like a prism. The facets of this story include: toy companies, toy fans, toy stores, toy artists and toy bloggers. Let’s begin at the beginning, with the toy companies.
Kidrobot is no longer Your Neighborhood Toy Store. Perhaps they never were, but for me, their little shop on Haight Street circa 2004 was a place to see and buy art toys. These days, Kidrobot is a global brand, and they’ve got people who handle their PR. For this story, I spoke with Merryl Spence, who had previously been forthcoming with information on the Huck Gee AP incident of 2008. Per Merryl: “Kidrobot’s collective response is: Fans of Kidrobot enjoy the blind box experience and enjoy the thrill of the chase.”
So I showed Merryl a 3-page thread on the Kidrobot forum where many of Kidrobot’s fans seemed to disagree. The disenchantment is linked to the volume of blind box series Kidrobot released last year and the challenge and expense it takes to collect a set. Despite this information, Kidrobot stuck to their response.
In contrast to Kidrobot’s case layouts are those of the French company Artoyz, who recently released their Elements Alpha Series. If you buy a case of this series, you are guaranteed 19 out of 20 unique figures. Since a case contains 25 figures, Artoyz capped the amount of duplicates at two. I spoke with Yann-Claude Phillipot about their strategy for these. He said, “We share the same thought about the fact that some companies [were] pushing customers to buy more than a case to collect the whole series. We want to avoid that and we want our customer to get the whole series without pushing too hard.”
Kevin Winnick who heads up Toy2R USA explained their position on blind boxes like this: “We have seen the growth over the past few years and welcome it by continuing to release new and exciting collections. Toy2R hopes to inspire more fans to get into the world of collecting blind box figures.” Toy2R and Kidrobot differ in a few ways. Toy2R will often release a series with A and B case-layouts, so that a complete set can be made with the purchase of two cases. However, both companies do follow a system of ratios with their blind box figures. Some figures are as common as 1:5 and others are as rare as one out of hundreds.
ToyCyte gave David Horvath big props when Pretty Ugly LLC released his Uglydoll Action Figures in an atypical way for the industry: Serious collectors who wanted to own the whole set needed to buy just one sealed case. Casual fans could still buy blind boxes. There were no ratios or chase figures. “Mixing up blind assortments with ratios to make something harder to find doesn’t feel right to us,” said Horvath. “If you really want a full set, you should be able to walk in, ask for a sealed box, and presto, have them all. We also feel that getting repeats is lame. So we placed one of each guy in one box.” When asked whether blind boxes are a strategy or an experience, David responded: “Some may call it a marketing ‘tool’ more than a ’scheme’ but it is what it is.”
Jim Crawford of STRANGEco sees both sides of the blind box debate: “For some, it’s surprising, fun and brings on the thrill of the chase; for others it’s a pain in the ass because you can’t get the one you want without buying a bunch that you don’t.” I asked Jim if the economy was a factor in peoples’ buying habits. “It’s possible that we’ll see a shift in ratios and variety,” he said, “so either people don’t have to spend as much to get the character designs they’re seeking or there’s less chance of getting a bunch of duplicates.”
Most owners of designer toy companies are also themselves toy collectors. When I posed the question to Mezco’s Director Of Special Projects, Mike Drake, he said, “As a collector I hate blind box toys when it relates to different characters. Assorted colors are fine, but when it’s a case [of different characters], I stay away. For the most part I’m not a completist. Often, I don’t want every toy, I just want what I want. To make me buy figures I don’t want or need to get what I do want is annoying. That said, if I were 12 and spending my parent’s money I might be singing a different tune.” Mezco has yet to release blind box toys of different characters.
October Toys is another company that doesn’t sell blind box toys, but they actually do like the blind box experience. “We (as October Toys) don’t choose to blind box anything [but this is] just a company opinion,” George Gaspar told me. I wasn’t expecting this since on their weekly webshow, Toy Break, the couple has a blind box segment, and both George and Ayleen espoused the merits of blind box toys. George pointed out the “ease of trading off the figure you don’t want for the figure someone else doesn’t want.” And Ayleen told me: “Blind boxes also play a small, but important roll in bringing the designer toy community together via swapping figures. Whether this is done online or at trading parties, it’s a wonderful aspect of our toy niche.”
MINDstyle’s MD Young would agree with Ayleen’s perspective. He was the only person I interviewed who denied that blind boxes were a marketing strategy. He prefers to think of them as an experience. Nonetheless, MINDstyle packs the core figures in a series into a single case and also sells window box figures. We were almost on the same page, but then he said: “We say experience because our view on the whole blind box figures experience is just that…taking a chance. So to best answer [your question of] who wants to purchase uncertainty, we only need to look to Vegas.”
Vegas is precisely the non-literal place at which toy collectors and toy companies part ways. Gambling is a game in which money is exchanged for the chance to win more money. Collecting toys is a hobby where money is paid for a physical item. If toys are to be considered art forms, a gambling comparison doesn’t help the case. Let’s imagine that there was a group show going on at an art gallery. When an art collector presented her credit card to the show’s curator, the curator promptly put her in a blindfold, spun her around and gave her whichever painting she was facing. This would never fly in the art world.
MD feels that this issue is “more of a matter made into an issue by a select few versus the majority who truly enjoy blind boxes.” I’ll be reporting on how fans feel about blind boxes tomorrow, but feel free to weigh in using the comments section below. Please join us all week long as we continue the discussion with toy fans, toy stores, toy artists and toy bloggers.
Jeremy Brautman - who has written 1965 posts on ToyCyte: Toy Culture Collected.
Jeremy Brautman joined ToyCyte in 2008 and has been writing about toy culture ever since. You can currently find him contributing to a variety of blogs, artkiving doodles at Doodlesplatter.com and cataloging artistic ephemera at ARTkivers.com.
[...] http://www.toycyte.com/blindsided-a-toycyte-investigation-part-2-toy-fans http://www.toycyte.com/blindsided-a-toycyte-investigation-part-1-toy-companies [...]
[...] Part 1: Toy Companies [...]
March 23rd, 2009 at 9:53 am
I think one of the biggest things to remember when talking about the “excitement” of choosing the box that may make or break you is that a pretty good chunk of collectors do not have access to an actual store. For me if I want just a couple dunnys from the latest series I just have to hope that the kr staff member that picks mine out for me does a good job. it’s not that fun at all imo unless you are physically there to experience it.
March 23rd, 2009 at 9:59 am
Love this article!
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:07 am
Great article and very well-written! While the excitement of the chase is indeed titillating at times, some companies abuse this to the point of no return. For example, Kidrobot. They include duplicates of up to 4 of the same, series 5 devilrobots, and when a collector gets that, they are immediately turned off from purchasing more cases. And judging from Merryl’s response to their most loyal fan base on the boards, they seem to be pretty unresponsive to the needs of the customers. Kidrobot has evolved from a small unique shop to a overgrown corporation that needs some major revamping. Either way, I still have love for the dunny platform but the run sizes are ridiculous.
In summation, the chase is great but at the same time, sometimes the reward does not make up for getting stuck with duplicates. Any company that fails to see the points that Jeremy makes needs to better understand the collector’s point of view as opposed to only trying to get money out of their customers.
And another idea for an article Jeremy, perhaps you can discuss run sizes as well as price hikes. Like the 50% markup of Kidrobot’s 8″ dunnys as well as markups for everything else. It’s just ridiculous unless I truly understand that there is truly such an increase in production costs. Until then, Kidrobot has evolved into a money grubbing company and that’s just pathetic.
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:25 am
This article is great, It’s nice to hear from people running the companies and making these decisions on their blind box releases. Can’t wait to read the rest of this article and see everyone’s opinion on one page. For I have stopped buying blind boxes, I love dunnies but their production numbers and rations have been so odd lately, I got 4 devil bots in my s5 case, not to mention the doubles of the other half of the set. and justin above me is right too, the 50% mark up on the 8″ dunnies has also made me lose interest in the 8′ dunnies. Companies have lost sight of what they set out to do for the designer toy industry and that was make the customers happy. But it was great to hear Horvath give his opinion and it even made me want to buy a case of the ugly dolls. Can’t wait for the rest of the article
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:25 am
The assumption that price increases are related to nothing more than greed is short-sighted, at best.
A brief look at the upcoming Kronk 8″ Dunny reveals approximately 11 colors in the design. Separate screens are needed for the front, back, ears, and arms. Considering that a rough screen cost is about $100 each, that many colors on that many body parts is going to leave you needed close to 40 screens. Plus the cost of the mold. Plus you have to account for rejects with something that complicated, which is likely to be close to 5% of the total production run. Four-color process box, plastic tray, sealed foil bags, master cartons, etc etc.
Then you tell any factory in China that you only want 1000 pieces, with all of that set-up, and see what they quote you.
Then realize that Kidrobot is selling most of these at only half of that $75 retail. Their cost on these Dunnys is probably close to $30 each. You can do the rest of the math…
Manufacturing anything in a small run is stupidly expensive, no matter where you do it.
For the record, I hate that I’m becoming a manufacturer apologist. I just wish people understand what goes into getting something manufactured in a small quantity better, so that the commentary didn’t always just immediately degrade into “They’re greedy”. That’s dull, and inaccurate.
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:25 am
Just wait for the rest of the series! Jeremy has contacted collectors, companies and artists, all weighing in the matter. It’s an interesting discussion that should involve the entire industry, long after our story is published.
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:38 am
A an ex-Heroclix collector, WizKids often made efforts to include an almost full set into a case of packs – but there were numerous instances where the factory screwed up the packouts and people who spent $250+ on a case (to get a full set, plus rare pieces like Marvel Zombies) were left screwed with boxes filled with untradeable pieces.
While I do like the mystery of the blind box SOMETIMES, it becomes very frustrating when you hit duplicate #10 in the same case. And I have to say that at least 35% of the KR Dunnys are really just ass-ugly – a large reason why I started making customs, so I could make something good out of a crappy situation. You know, when life hands you ugly designers, make uglydesignerade.
Definitely not a solution to crappy case packouts, though. It still feels nice to pull a $100 Kozik robo-Dunny, though – but that’s hearkening back to the trading card days of my youth. Aren’t those the original blind packs?
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:46 am
Good job Jeremy! As I’ve told you before I stopped buying blind box toys altogether because I would get so many duplicates it’s ridiculous. I also don’t have a ton of friends collecting and haven’t had a chance to make it to most of the trading parties at the one store we have in Phoenix. Couple that with trying to trade a very cheap dunny on a message board with shipping involved it really isn’t worth the time or money for me. Actually I have pared down my collection by about 1/5 as much as I used to have and now have a smaller amount of rarer figures plus stuff that has some significance to me. I collect by artist now more than ever.
I don’t really feel like it’s always people being greedy but with 3″ dunnys, I’m sorry those aren’t small manufactured runs. And Steve Brown i am pretty sure these large companies are getting a different price because of the amount they produce than if i “…tell any factory in China that you only want 1000 pieces, with all of that set-up, and see what they quote you.”
Either way, good job promoting discussion on this aspect of the industry.
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:46 am
I understand that production costs may have increased, but what I don’t understand is why before, runs of 500 could be sold for $50, but now runs of 1500 are sold for $75. I do not believe that I am short-sighted, I am just plain ignorant in the ways of the toy making system and any information provided would be greatly appreciated.
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:55 am
Yes I would like to hear more about the cost of manufacturing figures. We hear rumors on how its dirt cheap to make everything and then the price is jacked way up once put on the shelves. I defiantly understand losing money from printing small amounts of a dunny. I just want to know if other figures like the Jeremyville or older figures such as the Bubble Yucky’s (one of my favorites) had a larger production number than 1000 or even 1500. If so then I could see the price raised to $75 to print 1500.
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:57 am
Material costs may attribute to this, along with shipping costs, but I’d love to hear someone with first-hand knowledge comment to let us know!
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:58 am
Kylo, I was specifically talking about the 8″ Dunnys. I don’t know enough about run sizes to comment on the smaller stuff, so I don’t run my mouth on those.
But as for the large companies getting better pricing…what I laid out WAS the better pricing. Yikes, right?
Justin, I pretty much just laid it all out. Shoparooni is in the process of working on some small-run exclusives, and the costs are staggering. Plus, I don’t know how other companies do it but we try really hard to pay artists really well, and that adds a huge chunk of change to the retail cost.
The worst of it? Before this store, I was in the “real” toy industry for 14 years. Injection molding, which is how most toys are made, is about 10x as expensive. It’s better for large runs, but when you can’t sell something for more than $3 wholesale, that means you’ve generally gotta keep your cost around $1.25. Try making a decent yo-yo for $1.25, in a quantity that won’t make your heart explode. I remember signing off on POs for half a million pieces of something and nearly having a massive coronary.
Manufacturing can be super rewarding if you have the cash flow, but it’s a never-ending series of “Oh my god, I hope this isn’t the project that bankrupts us”.
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:01 am
I think I’m going to have someone on the boards design a toy, and I’ll try and get actual manufacturing quotes from one of my China sources to lay it all out for everyone. That’ll be a fun project, and shed a little light on everything. In the meantime, sorry for the hijack!
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:26 am
Thanks for the clarification Steve, much obliged.
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:34 am
Kylo76, sure thing. I try to be helpful and informative, when I’m not being ridiculous and vaguely irritating.
It’s really a fascinating industry. Coming out of a much more mainstream venue of toy production, seeing all of this tiny little “cottage industry” stuff is very much a breath of fresh air for me. The stuff people are doing with resin, in particular, is really incredibly exciting. It’s punk rock toy production at it’s finest, and it’s pretty awesome to see the artists taking the reins on stuff.
Plus: I love talking.
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:43 am
Couple of comments…
“So I showed Merryl a 3-page thread on the Kidrobot forum where many of Kidrobot’s fans seemed to disagree. ”
Unfortunately, the KR forums make up only a small percentage of Kidrobot collectors, mostly just the die hard fans. I don’t think that’s a good example of “many of Kidrobot’s fans”.
and…
“Gambling is a game in which money is exchanged for the chance to win more money. Collecting toys is a hobby where money is paid for a physical item. If toys are to be considered art forms, a gambling comparison doesn’t help the case.”
Some would disagree with you on that point. Consider the aftermarket values of these figures or folks that resell the work of established and successful artists. For some folks, there is a direct correlation with gambling.
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:50 am
i enjoyed the article so far, and also the commentaries. can’t wait to read more.
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:59 am
Huck! Wait for tomorrow’s segment on fans, where you’ll hear different responses from a wide group of fans. It is lost on me though, your point on why Kidrobot would seem to ignore the feedback it gets directly from its fans on its own forum. Look at the join dates on that thread. Those aren’t KR’s “die hard” fans–they’re KR’s newest fans. But more on that tomorrow…and more from Huck on Thursday.
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:01 pm
And I forgot to mention… love the article!
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Huck, I don’t think it’s gambling as much as straight up business or investing for some resellers, whom i loathe with all of my soul. Granted you could get stuck with something you don’t want but these people know what they’re doing when they buy your customs or bootlegs or some KAWS stuff. Trust me I’m at the point where I want that kind of stuff now in my life and can barely afford it at the initial price much less the aftermarket prices. So I usually get nothing out of it at and then see theses pieces on Ebay when they just sold and you know they don’t even physically have them yet. Art has been bought and sold for investment for hundreds of years before art toys even came about. I think gambling implies you will actually be losing something, which these resellers usually don’t, besides their honor.
And although no business should be governed by message boards, KR should also focus on their fans a bit more. Those kind of threads are representative of a larger voice in the collecting establishment and should be at least acknowledged.
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Kylo76
Good point… or is it gambling/investing with a really high success ratio? Peeps assume my stuff will increase in value straight out the gate. But I have recently seen a couple of folks lose money on their attempts to flip my works on Ebay. Silly flippers.
And I wholeheartedly agree. I’ve been the voice yelling at KR to pay more attention to their messageboards for way too long.
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Huck:
Drop a mini-series with another company. I’m betting you’ll have KR’s full attention at that point. Ha!
March 23rd, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Kudos Jeremy. Nice read. Cant wait for the rest…
As for the subject, I like blind boxes, I like the chase. Especially when I have several favorites i am looking for.
When a set comes out I dont like except for maybe one, I hate blind boxes. I end up on Ebay paying double for the piece but most likely less seeing as I most likely would have had to buy 10…
Some people like repeating artists. KR does this a lot. Every series is new designs from the same lot as last time with a wild card thrown in…
Personally this method creates a stale design set. I havent seen a KR product I wanted to buy in over 2 years.
But to those who like to collect a set of a specific artist this is a good thing.
There is no perfect formula so its a good thing there are so many companies trying different things.
March 23rd, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Judging from this read, KR seems to have everyone’s attention, but all those people are coming across very disgruntled…
March 23rd, 2009 at 2:00 pm
BTW, I bought 2 full boxes of the Uglydoll action figs. First time I have EVER done that….
March 23rd, 2009 at 2:25 pm
I’m on a bit of a budget (or, rather, have decided that toys will not consume my budget), so I’m a big fan of blind boxes. Or, at least, of toys that at one time were in blind boxes. I love that they’re (mostly) inexpensive, as I can’t afford to drop $50+ every time I need a fix. I like series like Invisible Plan, Inventsville and Mechtorians (not blind, but small), where one artist gets to develop an idea in a bunch of different forms. I also love the Dunnies, since I think they provide a thrill similar to customs — only much, much cheaper. As you might have guessed, I’m not in the market for entire cases, nor am I interested in collecting complete sets of anything. I want the ones I like, and no others, thankyouverymuch.
Since blind boxes cost a bit more than a pint of beer, it’s pretty easy to determine whether a purchase makes sense. My wife (an economist) and I have even developed a strategy for avoiding disappointment with blind boxes. It is as follows:
1. I will not buy a blind box unless every possible figure would make me happier than a beer.
2. I will not buy more than one blind box from a given series unless I know that there are no duplicates in any given case, and I buy them from the same case.
These are tough rules, but they’ve kept me happy. And if I want a figure that I can’t get by these rules (any dunny, say), I buy it off of ebay. I’d rather pay an extra $5 for shipping than pay an extra $8 (or more) for figures that I don’t want, and that I’m to lazy to trade.
March 23rd, 2009 at 2:32 pm
“1. I will not buy a blind box unless every possible figure would make me happier than a beer.”
This is the single best toy-buying strategy I’ve ever heard. You win!
Free blind box of your choice from Shoparooni. Drop me a line at steve@shoparooni.com to claim.
March 23rd, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Very interesting article. I can’t wait to read the rest of the viewpoints on blind boxing.
As a fairly new collector blind boxing has been an interesting thing for me.
On one hand I love the idea on not knowing what I’m going to get and the suprise that awaits me when I open up my figures.
On the other hand I get the reality of a lot of the toy sets I’ve been trying to collect which is I buy 5 toys and I get 3 of the same figure and 2 that are different. Most of the time I just end up giving the duplicates away to friends who don’t normally collect art toys but think my duplicates are kind of cool.
I don’t think it would be as bad if the ratios per box were a little more balanced in general.
March 23rd, 2009 at 2:52 pm
“1. I will not buy a blind box unless every possible figure would make me happier than a beer.” (Ross)
“This is the single best toy-buying strategy I’ve ever heard. You win!” (Steve Brown)
That really IS a top notch toy-buying strategy! Am I also agreeing on something related to blind boxes with Steve Brown?
March 23rd, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Yes you are. Clearly, the world has gone mad.
March 23rd, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Great job on the article, Jeremy. Can’t wait to read the rest.
March 23rd, 2009 at 3:56 pm
clever, contemporary, critical, complex: contains some serious thought and commentary. nice going!
March 24th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
Excellent part 1 Jeremy! Looking forward to reading the rest.
March 28th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
as one of jeremy’s closest pals, i must say that i wouldn’t jump out of an airplane with him to achieve a social thrill.
March 31st, 2009 at 7:00 am
Jeremy- Most excellent article, I have read the first part and I am looking forward to the next 4 parts! Hope you don’t mind if I link to this article, it’s definitely an interesting read for everyone in our community.
-Benny